Trenbolone the Chemical Uncoupler ? think DNP, BAM 15
For decades we have known that moderately high to high dosages of Trenbolone results in both significant fat loss contribution, very disproportionate in comparison to the contribution we see from other Androgens including Testosterone and makes you sweat like pig at night, stories of waking up with soaked bedsheets are not uncommon.
It is my belief this is one of the observational reasons that so many think that Trenbolone is ” so much more powerful in its Androgenic Potential ” than Testosterone or other Testosterone Derivatives
Because they think that its Trenbolones Androgenic Potential that causes these outcomes
I am going to challenge that and explain how its Trenbolones action on the Progesterone Receptor that is causing this outcome..
Here is my Hypothesis.
Trenbolone is both a capable Androgen and a capable Progestin in that its is able to act powerfully on the Progesterone Receptor.
So ?
The role of Brown adipose tissue (BAT) in Adults is still controversial.
The heat generating properties of BAT a major component of adaptive thermogenesis in the newborn mammal during the immediate acclimatisation to the relatively cold extra-uterine environment, but the presence of active BAT in adults raises the possibility of a therapeutic target for weight loss interventions.
The importance of white adipose tissue (WAT) is well documented and its role in health and disease has been long established. In contrast, the importance of Brown adipose tissue (BAT) in adults has only been identified much more recently.
The BATspecific uncoupling protein (UCP)1 enables BAT to convert chemical energy in fatty acids and other substrates to heat.
Mitochondrial uncoupling protein 1 (UCP1) is responsible for nonshivering thermogenesis in brown adipose tissue (BAT). UCP1 uniquely uncouples the mitochondrial energy cascade from adenosine triphosphate (ATP) production, instead releasing the energy as heat.
This is reflected in the basal oxygen consumption rate of human BAT, which has been shown to be approximately 350 pmol/min compared to subcutaneous WAT, which is almost 100 times less
BAT is innervated by the sympathetic nervous system (SNS) through noradrenaline (NA) acting on the β-adrenoreceptor (AR), which then promotes lipolysis and the resulting increase in intracellular free fatty acids activates UCP1.
The β3-AR subtype is the primary AR responsible for the NA-induced upregulation of BAT through increased UCP1 expression and activity, and raised cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP).
β3-AR are only present in the mature adipocyte, whereas β1 and β2-ARs are found in preadipocytes.
Brown-like cells have been shown to be present in deposits of WAT and are termed beige or BRITE (BRown-In-whiTE) adipocytes.
Getting to the point here I promise..
The effects of Progesterone on BAT
Brown Adipocytes express receptors for Progesterone, Estrogen and Testosterone
At lower concentrations, Progesterone but not E2 increases UCP1 NA-induced mRNA expression in BAT cells. Both E2 and progesterone increase the size and number of lipid
droplets in BAT cells compared to testosterone, suggesting an increased metabolic – and presumably thermogenic – capacity of the cell
Progesterone has a positive effect on factors associated with mitochondrogenesis and BAT differentiation (i.e., PPARγ and GABPA-TFAM axis)
The effect of Testosterone on BAT
The primary male sex steroid testosterone appears to have opposite effects to Estrogen and Progesterone, at least in vitro, resulting in a decrease in thermogenic capacity.
Testosterone promotes increased gene expression of the anti-lipolytic receptor α2-AR and reduces both NA-induced expression of UCP1 , and PGC1α in conjunction with a decline in the number and size of lipid droplets and lipolytic sensitivity.
However in vivo, testosterone administration consistently results in decreased body mass in rodent models and, where measured, resting metabolic rate is increased.
It appears that testosterone may exert its effect on weight loss through a combination of decreased energy intake and increased resting metabolic rate with or without a change in BAT activity. The exact balance of mechanisms involved may therefore vary depending on species, age and duration.
As well as increasing the resting metabolic rate, it seems likely that testosterone promotes exercise. The recent but still controversial discovery of the hormone irisin, which is released from muscle during exercise and promotes BAT function, may suggest a mechanism by which testosterone can have an indirect stimulatory effect on brown adipocytes in vivo, overcoming the inhibition seen in vitro.
Takeaway ?
IMO its Trenbolone’s interplay with the Progesterone Receptor in Brown adipose tissue (BAT) that is responsible for both its role in significant fat loss contribution, and makes you sweat like pig at night.
Important Consideration here..
A great many guys that use Trenbolone when they are dieting also use Clenbuterol, also an agonist at the beta-2 and beta-3 adrenergic receptor = doubling up the stimulus here.
If you really want to get your ” sweat on” ? .. Trenbolone + Clenbuterol + DNP …
Finally the risk here ?
Steroidal Progestins are NOT good for our Brains.. if you are sweating excessively and that is Trenbolones interplay with the Progesterone Receptor that is a decent proxy for ” too much”
NO I have no direct evidence to support this.. its a case of follow the thread or dont.. up to you.
A Victor Black Quick Snippet – How does Trenbolone influence Aggression, by what Mechanism ?
These types of Posts are designed to be simple langauge and to the point, NOT deep dives into the Literature.
Many believe that Trenbolones influence on Aggression and then by extension on Force Production is via its high Androgenicity compared to say the comparator Drug Testosterone
” Trenbolone is 300% more Androgenic or 500% more Androgenic than T ”
But we know that is total Bro Science Trenbolone is a Steroidal SARMs, and its far less Androgenic than T as we see here
https://victorblackmasterclass.com/trenbolone-vs-testosterone/
So if Trenbolone is a Steroidal SARMs far less Androgenic than Testosterone then why does it observationally increase aggression more ?
Steroidal Progestins influence Aggression and Social Behavior and Trenbolone and MENT are potent Steroidal Progestins
The most important Takeaway here is this, its action NOT via the Androgen Receptor..
The progestin that has been the most extensively studied and which is commonly used in synthetic hormone replacement therapy, MPA (medroxyprogesterone acetate), has been found to have negative effects on the nervous system
It would be great if we had better Human Data on Trenbolone but we dont, I challenge anyone to look at the data we have on Steroidal Progestins and not think “fuck thats basically describing Trenbolone and MENT” two potent Steroidal Progestins..
We can see the increase in Aggression Rates in this surrogate study when we introduce the Steroidal Progestin MPA its quite profound.
The problem is this is potentially problematic long term due to negative effects on the Nervous System
So I am clear here, I am not saying we should never use Trenbolone but we need to more limited in its use if we care about Brain Health
More here
https://victorblackmasterclass.com/course/brain-health-neurotoxicity-and-cognitive-enhancement/
Medroxyprogesterone Acetate Steroidal Progestin and Aggresssion
For a few days last week I presented the ” evidence based approach” to understanding the Anabolic Potential of Trenbolone
Today I give you the classic Bro model.. the ad hominem attack
Go on any facebook group that allows PED discussion.. dont post anything..
Just watch for 1 day..
See how many recreational trainers include Tren in their conversations..
Its use is almost at ” default levels” today almost everyone uses it, almost everyone recommends it..
” If you wanta get huge and jacked you gunna need Tren Bruh ”
and see how much they are using… 400 – 700 mg a week is typical.. its not like they are using 100mg a week..
Now ask yourself just how many of these guys… offering thier opinion actually are huge and jacked ?
If it really was so all powerful.. why do you look like you dont even go to the gym let alone use the most powerful PED known to man ?
Today I give you the classic Bro model.. the ad hominem attack
Most guys that use ” too much” Tren.. they dont have much to show for it.. given how all powerful its supposed to be..
Victor Black
Trenbolones Cognitive and Emotive Impact – a short conversation with a Member
Brent P
I have followed you for awhile and confused as to your stance on tren.
I thought you were not a fan??
Yet, these last few posts have led me to believe you may be ok with it in smaller doses.
Victor Black
I consider it a situational use drug
Its not a basal use PED IMO
Ie do I think the average recreational use trainer ever needs to use it ?
No, but ” situational use ” ie occasionally ? ok
ie I use Trenbolone going into competition.. because of its mechanism of action
Chemical Uncoupler and GCR Agonist
For me the question is, do I really need this drug or not ?
Is there an alternative ?
In that way you can see it ” similar” to Anadrol
Not every day use no..
Brent P
It has become a staple in my area. My issue with it has always been its ability to cross blood/brain barrier and affect mood negatively.
From my readings, it is relatively SAFE drug on organ systems BUT sketchy on your emotions. I may be wrong…..
SO many of our gym kids have gotten into legal issues while running TREN. Domestic violence being the number one side effect.
BUT, I feel (opinion) that if it does not affect your moodiness negatively, then it is not such a bad compound. Maybe even a very good drug for growth and leanness.
Am I wrong?
Victor Black
To be fair all AAS can cross the BBB
Yes I agree it does appear to have a more pronounced impact of cognitive function..
IMO that is due to its binding affinity with the Progesterone Receptor more than its action on the AR ..
and very dosage dependent..
Progesterone is a very powerful cognitive function modulation pathway..
For any interested
” Synthetic progestins are molecularly different from natural progesterone and therefore do not metabolize to the same compounds as natural progesterone.
They do not show benefits for cognitive or anti-anxiety function. In fact, they have not been found to have any of progesterone’s neuroprotective properties.
The progestin that has been the most extensively studied and which is commonly used in synthetic hormone replacement therapy, MPA (medroxyprogesterone acetate), has been found to have negative effects on the nervous system and even reduces the beneficial effects of estrogen. ”
IMO this the what is going on with Trenbolone… and the more you use, the more it hurts..
Trenbolone VS Testosterone, which is a better Growth Promoter ?
No Trenbolone is not more Androgenic than Testosterone.
No Trenbolone is not more Anabolic than Testosterone.
Yes Trenbolone produces a greater suppression of atrogin-1 mRNA (vs. testosterone).
Yes both androgens elevate expression of anabolic genes (IGF1 and MGF).
Expression of glucocorticoid receptor mRNA is suppressed by trenbolone only.
In ORX muscle, testosterone promotes WISP-2 gene and protein expression.
What all that mumbo jumbo means is yes there is a time and place and way to use Trenbolone that its shines like a Gem..
But you dont need to live on it.. infact it works best its paired with Test and ( they are both doing the work you attribute to Trenbolone ) and it works best when your dieting !
Full study is embedded here..
Questions in the comments section on the page below please
So ?
BAT is innervated by the sympathetic nervous system (SNS) through noradrenaline (NA) acting on the β-adrenoreceptor (AR), which then promotes lipolysis and the resulting increase in intracellular free fatty acids activates UCP1.
