One of the most debated aspects of compound selection and by extension dosage selection is structured around the head to head comparison of the various Anaboilic and Androgenic Compounds we have at our disposal.
There are 3 markers we can look at here
1, Animal Models – these often date back to the origin point of development of this family of compound
2, Human Models – many of these studies focused on measurement of Nitrogen Retention ( Anabolic Outcomes ) with Androgenic impact being hard to consider in Humans. Remember in the Animal models the test subjects are culled and Organ Weights are measured to determine ” impact”
3, Personal anacodete and experience and choice..
In todays post lets look at one Animal model that gave ascending dosages of 13 different steriods to Rats and considered the Androgenic/Anabolic outcomes.. based on dosage this time..
What can we learn from this data about Compound and Dosage Response?
Most of the studies in rats have been concerned with data which demonstrate increased anabolic (myotrophlc) activity* with decreased androgenlclty. Anabolic-androgenic steroids are also antigonadotrophic.
Stanozolol ~Winstrol) ’17~-hydroxy-17~-mothyl-5~-androstano E 3,2-cj pyrazole
All of the compounds tested depressed testes weight (Table 1), increased seminal vesicle weight (Table 2), enlarged the ventral prostate (Table 3), and promoted levator ani weight gain (Table 4).
Take aways
All of the preparations were highly effective in promoting weight gain of the levator anl muscle. Of the thirteen steroids tested, seven produced significant increases in levator ani weight at 40 mcg/day and above, .four at lO0.mcg/day and above and two at levels of 200 mcg/day and above (Table 4).
If non-hormonal considerations are excluded~ the relative value of an anabolic steroid clinically~ would depend on whether effective anabolic dosages were possible without concurrent androgenic and antigonadotrophic activities at these levels.
Of note:
Anavar, Anadrol and DBol create ” comparatively lower ” shutdown” than Testosterone, Nandrolone, Primobolan
Outcomes from Nandrolone and Primobolan are of all purposes equal in this comparison.
This is further evidence this idea that you must use ” mega dosing” of Primobolan to see the effect is not based in evidence, but rather ” Bro Law”
Comparative androgenic, myotrophic and antigonadotrophic properties of some anabolic steroids AlfredBoris Et Al
No there is no such thing as a Steroid that will “dry you out”
No Winstrol will not dry you out, nor Masterton, nor Halotesin, nor Trenbolone – hell use enough Trenbolone and you will drive subcutaneous water retention.
So no that is not what is going on here.
No Androgenic or Anabolic Steroid causes “ Diuresis “
In fact all AAS drugs cause “ water retention” to some degree, every single last one
and by extension Estrogen is NOT the only consequence of AAS use that determines “ water retention”
Different AAS compounds affect their water retentive actions via different pathways
an increase in Glycogen Synthase an increase in Creatine Synthase Ionic Balance ( Minerals ) an increase in Estrogen Ratios an increase in Prolactin / Progesterone
DHT derivates tend to drive intracellular water retention only
Drugs that convert to Estrogen or those that are Estrogens in their own right ( like Nandrolone ) tend to drive both intra and extracellular water retention
When Prolactin is elevated this tends to drive principally extracellular water retention.
So it’s “ where” they drive the water that makes them “appear to dry you out” …
No there is no such thing as a Steroid that will “dry you out”
Many people think that Nandrolone causes less Estrogenic Issues than most AAS due to the lower rate of conversion to Estradiol via the Aromatase Enzyme
Ah hang one minute cause you need to understand the following
1, Nandrolone does not convert to Estrodial. just like Dbol does not convert to Estrodial – rather it converts to a variant of Estrogen and sometimes like in the case of Dbol or Ment that Estrogen is very powerful compared to Estradiol ( E2 )
2, 19 Nor Derivatives are known to be able to undergo transformation to powerful Estrogens in the Adult Liver
Few people understand this… its a problem with Birth Control Solutions derived from Nandrolone. That does affect us much because we use Nandrolone in injectable format.. it would be a problem in Oral form, indeed it is 19 Nor Oral Prohormones
3, Hell Nandrolone itself is the ONLY Steroid that shows a full dose-response curve in testing models for Estrogens
Nandrolone clearly has both androgenic and estrogenic properties, possibly explaining its excellent anabolic properties which require both types of hormonal activity. Without E there is limited growth! Nandrolone comes with its own E, it is E !
You can see here that 19-nortestosterone is a full agonist with ER Alpha receptor and that this compound is relatively more potent with ER Alpha receptor than it is with ER Beta
Hell forget converts to Estrogen, Nandrolone is an Estrogen.
There is no simple way to compare relative potencies of different testosterone analogs.
Personally I prefer to look at study data that we have in Human Cohorts that combines Progressive Resistance Training and Supra- Physiological Dosage of AAS and ask the question from a point of view of increases in LBM and Nitrogen Retention over multi week exposure time frames.
These studies are not ” perfect” oh I agree 100 percent
but IMO its a far far more practical way of exploring this domain that looking at 60 year old Rat Data that says Anavar is 3.2 x times more Anabolic than Testosterone.. or Tren is 5 times more Anabolic than Testosterone.
That idea simply does not reflect in real world outcomes..
Have you ever seen someone grow 3.2 x faster because they used Anavar rather than Testosterone as a Primary Growth Anchor ? I havent.
Or the Nandrolone only guys growing 25 percent faster than the rest of us ? Not a single example I can point to in 32 years..
Or the Trenbolone fans growing 5 x faster ? haha
I never have.. have you ?
Lets see what happens when you compare a few different options in actual Humans.. rather than Rat Muscles..
Guess what ? they are all about the same.. in a dose dependent manner..
Which is what we have known since the 1950s.. if you know where to look..
And if they are all “about the same”.. roughly.. what next ?
There is no simple way to compare relative potencies of different testosterone analogs.
Personally I prefer to look at study data that we have in Human Cohorts that combines Progressive Resistance Training and Supra- Physiological Dosage of AAS and ask the question from a point of view of increases in LBM and Nitrogen Retention over multi week exposure time frames.
These studies are not ” perfect” oh I agree 100 perfect
but IMO its a far far more practical way of exploring this domain that looking at 60 year old Rat Data that says Anavar is 3.2 x times more Anabolic than Testosterone.. or Tren is 5 times more Anabolic than Testosterone.
That idea simply does not reflect in real world outcomes..
Have you ever seen someone grow 3.2 x faster because they used Anavar rather than Testosterone as a Primary Growth Anchor ? I havent.
Or the Nandrolone only guys growing 25 percent faster than the rest of us ? Not a single example I can point to in 32 years..
Or the Trenbolone fans growing 5 x faster ? haha
I never have.. have you ?
Which is what we have known since the 1950s.. if you know where to look..
And if they are all “about the same”.. roughly.. what next ?
Victor Black
Victor Black Over 50 Grand Master Class Bodybuilder One on One Coaching
